Jaffa City Unlimited
Jaffa City Unlimited
Guitarist Tal Sandman talks about her passion for roots music, the complex rhythms on her recent release, 'Royal Family,' and the benefits of living in Jaffa
The ancient port city of Jaffa—it’s in the bible, King Solomon imported expensive cedar wood into Israel via its harbor, and Jonah’s ill-fated sea journey started there—in modern times has been absorbed into greater Tel Aviv. It’s something of a multicultural mecca, and is home to a diversity of Jews and Arabs—and that includes their foods, musics, fashions, and houses of worship—and is close to the more recent arrivals from Ethiopia who live in southern Tel Aviv. It’s also the type of place that’s perfect for someone like guitarist and bandleader, Tal Sandman, to call home.
Sandman suffers from cultural wanderlust. She explores, almost obsessively, the musics and vibes of disparate peoples, and incorporates them into her compositions and recordings. Recent passions include West African Afrobeat, Ethiopian jazz, Azerbaijani guitar music, and 1960s-era psych. She’s also studied sitar, and checked out Arabic maqamet on oud (maqam, or plural, maqamet, is an Arabic system of melodic organization).
“For me, I usually listen to a lot of music,” Sandman says in our interview below. “I explore on YouTube, try to research, and I look for roots music and different styles from all over the world. You can find crazy things on YouTube, and crazy guitar players.”
Sandman is a fixture on the Israeli scene, and her curriculum vitae includes sessions with numerous artists, as well as regular gigs with acts like System Ali, Bint El-Funk, Yael Deckelbaum, and many others. She released her first EP as a leader, Royal Family, in late 2018, with her group, Sandman Project, and people like Yossi Fine (David Bowie, Rubén Blades), and Ethiopian jazz master, Abate Bariyuh, regularly join them on stage.
“I couldn’t stop listening to it when it came out—even before it came out, because from when you first speak with an artist until the album actually comes out can be like six months,” Batov label head, Doron Erez (DJ Kobayashi), says about his enthusiasm for Sandman’s music, and the work she’s released on his label. “It was the only thing I was listening to.”
I spoke with Sandman, whose career, like most musicians these days, is on hold due to the ongoing pandemic, and we discussed her work with Abate Bariyuh, the complex rhythmic feels and grooves featured on Royal Family, her forays into various musical styles, her experiences touring in India and the U.K., and the challenges finding extra-heavy guitar picks in Israel.
What’s your background and how did you get into music?
I grew up on a moshav called Maor, which is between Tel Aviv and Haifa, in the northern-central part of Israel. It is not close to a specific city. It is between a lot of villages, and there are many kibbutzim in the area. I started on the piano when I was seven years old, but that was for a short time—maybe a few months of lessons—I didn’t like the teacher so I stopped. I didn’t read music, but I pretended to read the notes. I just used my ears. I listened and made as if I read the notes, but everything was by ear. It was like a trick [laughs].
When did you start playing guitar?
I started around seven years old, too. I used to go to lessons, but I didn’t like those teachers either. Most of what I learned, I learned by myself. I just tried to explore by myself. I did have one teacher who I liked, but I was about 12 years old when I found that teacher.
Did you play in bands?
I had some friends I played with at school. We played together in the music classes. The first band I had was around when I was 16 or 17, and it was something like a progressive rock band. I wrote songs at that time. I wrote songs and I sang, but I never performed as a singer. I maybe performed once in my life as a singer.
How did you meet up with Abate Bariyuh?
It was about three years ago. I liked his music, and I called him and asked him if we could jam together, just me and him. I went to his studio, and we jammed. I recorded that jam, and after that he asked me if I wanted to join his band, Tesfa. “Tesfa,” in the Ethiopian language, means “hope.” We played for a while and we did some shows. After that, I started my project, Sandman Project. I was also playing with some other bands like Bint El-Funk, System Ali—I had a few bands that I used to play with—and then I wanted to focus on my own project. I left those bands and focused on Sandman Project.
Did Sandman Project become your main gig?
That’s right, although I also invited Abate to a few shows to sit in with my band. He came, and played a few shows with us. It was amazing. We had this big show together at the Negev Festival. We also did a few shows at the Inbal Theater in Tel Aviv.
Do you do session work as well?
I’ve played on a few albums, and with a few projects. I used to play with Yael Deckelbaum, which was one of the best projects I did. She’s a big musician in Israel. I also recorded an album with Tomash (Tomer Sharon), he’s a famous actor in Israel. I recorded an album with System Ali, and two albums with Bint El-Funk, and I’ve done a lot of studio sessions as well.
With Sandman Project, what are the influences that you are incorporating into the mix?
There are many influences including world music, psychedelic groove, afrobeat, and African sounds. “World music” is the most direct, or correct, way to say it, but there are many influences from all over the world that we are inspired by.
When you say, afrobeat, do you mean Fela Kuti and artists like that?
Fela Kuti is a good example, but not only Fela. The other players on this project come from free jazz. Bassist Shay Hazan, drummer Haim E. Peskoff, and trumpeter Tal Avraham used to play jazz and free jazz, but we are all inspired by the sounds of world music.
Free jazz is very different from the groove-centric music you’re playing now.
That’s right [laughs], but these guys are geniuses, and that’s because they feel the music very deeply, and listen to each other very intently, among other things. They played free jazz for many years, and they are very famous on the free jazz scene here in Israel. It’s a very small scene, and not so well known, but there are many great musicians that play that kind of music here.
On the EP, there are a lot of polyrhythms, but also grooves in odd meters. For example, on a song like “Circles,” is that something you worked on or is it more organic?
“Circles” is a very Moroccan groove, but there are many influences for this music, [and a lot] that came from Africa. But to be honest, the beats in our music are something that comes from my heart. It’s not that I thought, “Now I want to play in a Moroccan style or something else.” It’s just what I hear with the melody. Me and Tal—the trumpet player—we used to play a lot together. We worked on the music a lot, and when we practiced the melodies, that’s when we actually put a groove to it. We did that without thinking too much about whether we wanted to sound Moroccan or African or whatever. First we played the melodies, and then we put on the drums, and we didn’t think too much about what we were going to do.
Meaning that it’s organic. You work the melody and whatever it is, it is.
Yes, and we found that it sounds like many things.
When you bring the songs to the rest of the band, do you spend a lot of time jamming on those groves in order that they feel natural to everyone?
Haim, Shay, and Tal know each other from the Academy of Music in Jerusalem—I never studied in any academy or conservatory—but they already knew each other from the Academy and used to play a lot together. They speak each other’s musical language, and know how to play together. Also, Tomer Baruch is the person who produced the EP, and he gave very important tips about the grooves, arrangements, and what to do. For example, on the song, “Savanna Trip,” he took my original tune, which was about 10 minutes long, and cut it down to the four-minute track that appears on the album. As a producer, he was very involved and hands-on—both before we started recording, as well as in post-production with the mix and adding additional effects. I also want to mention, that although the project is in my name, the EP was very much a collaborative effort and I wasn’t the only one who brought in ideas. A good example is the song, “Mazerich,” which Tal Avraham wrote.
The EP doesn’t sound like it has that much improvisation, but do you stretch the songs out when you play them live?
Yes, of course. At every show, I open up each of the tunes. I open them up for other solos, improvisation, and make room for a lot of spacey sounds. Every show is a different experience. [It could be anything], the bass player could take a 10 minute solo, I sometimes like to take a long solo, and the others as well. It is a different experience. It’s not like on the album where we just play each tune for four or five minutes, they can go on for much longer.
You and Tal, the trumpet player, both use pretty big pedalboards.
We used to live together in Jaffa, and I taught her how to use guitar pedals. That was because we were looking for a different sound with the trumpet. I gave her my big pedalboard, and we experimented with many pedals, and explored the sound together. Tomer Baruch, the EP’s producer, he also used guitar pedals, and helped us find special sounds with the trumpet.
It looks like you have a pretty complex board, too.
I don’t have too complicated a pedalboard. I am looking for an original sound, but not too many pedals. I have a preamp with fuzz and drive, I have a booster pedal for the solos, and I have a Crybaby wah-wah like Hendrix. I also have a special handmade pedal that includes a special delay with phaser and reverb inside. And that’s it, not too many pedals.
Can you talk about the different types of pentatonic scales used in Ethiopian music, and have you incorporated those into your playing?
I’ve explored the Ethiopian scales. I used to play a lot of Ethiopian music, and there are many Tezeta scales in the music, which is the most famous scale in Ethiopia. On the EP, we use it on the songs, “Hamsa” and “Royal Family.” Tezeta is a minor pentatonic scale [in A, the notes are A-B-C-E-F].
Those notes don’t fall naturally on guitar. Do you use alternate tunings to get easier access to the notes?
I only change the tuning for one tune, which is “Circles.” I do a drop D tuning [in standard guitar tuning, drop D is when you lower the low E string a whole step to D]. But “Circles” doesn’t use Tezeta. It uses more of a standard minor pentatonic. Tezeta is in the “Royal Family” melody. Ethiopian multi-instrumentalist, Mulatu Astatke, was a big inspiration for this tune.
How prevalent is Ethiopian music in Israeli society? Do you hear it around in bars or on the radio?
Not so much on the radio, but there is an Ethiopian scene in Israel. It’s more in Tel Aviv. There is the band Tigris, and Tesfa—the band I was in with Abate—it became trendy. There are a few bands here in Israel that also do the original tunes. They do covers of the Ethiopian hits from the 1970s and things like that. In Tel Aviv, it really became trendy. Because of corona, we haven’t had a live show for a long time, but there are usually some bands that play that kind of music. Also, in South Tel Aviv there are many people from Ethiopia who play the roots, or original music at weddings and things like that as well, and there are many great musicians.
Do they play on the traditional instruments?
Of course.
Do you play any of those?
The Ethiopian instruments? No, though I do play a little bit of oud. I have an electric oud and a classical oud. I used to study it for a while. Arabic music is another inspiration for me. I live in Jaffa, and I have all the Arabic influences in the music around me. My guitar style has a lot of oud influences.
Do you use the oud picking style on the guitar?
Yes. I use that oud style in how I play with a pick. I have a very heavy pick, like a 2.0 millimeter Dunlop. Whenever I need new picks, I need to order them special, because they don’t have them in the music shops. I was also in India a few times and I learned sitar. I [incorporate] the sitar style into my guitar style, into my playing, as well. I like the guitar styles from Azerbaijan. For me, I usually listen to a lot of music. I explore on YouTube, try to research, and I look for roots music and different styles from all over the world. Azerbaijani guitar is a big influence on my style, too. You can find crazy things on YouTube, crazy guitar players.
When studying oud, did you learn about some of the different Maqams, and different tuning systems?
When I learned to play oud, I learned about the Arabic scales, but on the guitar it is different because you have only half tones [half steps]. The oud has quarter tones, so you can’t do everything on the guitar.
Are you able to get good quality guitars in Israel, or do you wait until you go overseas?
Yes of course. Right now I am using a Bunting guitar, which someone built for me. But I still haven’t recorded with it. I’ll have to go to the studio again [laughs]. On the EP, I recorded with an Epiphone, which looks like a Les Paul. I got it as a gift from my friend. It is a very old guitar, from the 1970s. He gave it to me without any strings, and it was in a bad situation. I sent it in for a setup, and that’s what I used on the EP.
Were you gigging a lot before corona shut everything down?
The situation in Israel was quite good before corona. But for me, specifically, I wasn’t here for a while. I was traveling. I had some tours in the U.K. I was in England for a while. My label, Batov Records, the manager, DJ Kobayashi and I became very good friends. He booked me some shows in the U.K., in London. I had a big show at the Boomtown Festival, although I used other musicians with the Sandman Project. I am starting a new project there, too, but we played those tunes. I couldn’t take the regular band with me for those shows. After that, I flew to India, and I had another tour in Goa. In 2019, and the start of 2020, I had gigs around the world—England and India—and I came back here before the corona. I came back for the election.
And then you got stuck?
Yeah, but I did a lot of shows in Goa. I set up a new project there called, Tal Sandman and the Goa Afrobeat Band, and we had some shows there in Goa. But then I came here, and corona started. I haven’t posted videos from India on YouTube, but there was an amazing Indian singer named Mama India—she was a guest at a few those shows—and she may have posted a few things to YouTube.
What’s coming next?
I am working on some stuff now, but it is too soon to talk about it. We also did just have a rehearsal with the Sandman Project two weeks ago. They came to my studio in Jaffa. We hadn’t played together for a long time, and it was very nice. Everyone is waiting for some festivals and shows, but these times are difficult for us. We know nothing about the future, we have no idea when these corona problems will finish. We are just waiting.